Interview with Michael Paul Messenie of Dutchess Ales
by Joe Robitaille
We've become really big fans of Dutchess Ales here at the restaurant. This past week we were able to sit down with Michael Paul Messenie from the brewery to tell us a bit about their operation.
JR | As I understand it, you and your partner Tim Lee started your partnership out of a shared passion for beers that you would typically find in England, but are difficult to find here. What is it about English style beers that you and Tim are so drawn to?
MPM | My love for British beer came about from long stints in the UK and finding myself spending a lot of time in pubs from the mid-90's onward. Tim, originally from Cambridge, was a consistent partner of mine on the search for great Real Ales in London. Pubs at that time were a little bit on the slide and found it much more convenient to serve continental lagers and the like to a crowd that have sort of turned their back on Real Ale. Cask Ale's rebirth was really the doing of a movement of great pubs and owners demanding that true British Ale wasn't forgotten about - and in association with groups like CAMRA (the Campaign for Real Ale) Cask Ale was all of sudden seeing more interest. Cask Ale is still a bit 'endangered' but there are certainly enough lovers of it, and breweries in the UK specializing in it to create a vibrant scene. I caught really the first wave of its renewed interest at this time and once I had my first truly excellent, well presented pint of Real Ale, there was certainly no going back, and nothing to me has come close or will come close to a great Ale served in its greatest vessel! So as far as being drawn to something, these great beers are what I am always pining for the most.
JR | Dutchess Ales has a big focus on Cask Ales. What initially drew you to Cask Ales, and what are the benefits from serving from a cask?
As I mentioned before, I was drawn to cask ales in the UK in the 90's when I first had some really great examples at some wonderful pubs that focused on these beers. What I see as the benefit of cask ale is really just the flavor, nuance, and mouthfeel that cannot be compared to a beer that has been forced-carbonated. The cask conditioning produces a much finer and more delicate Co2 that allows the aromas and more subtle flavors to express themselves. This is particularly wonderful to me in more balanced beers that display a tension between malt and hops - beers that don't attempt to overpower you tend to show themselves best in cask.
JR | Can you please describe the process of how a brewer makes a cask ale?
MPM | The main thing that separates the making of cask ale from an ale packaged in keg or can is the additional step of 'conditioning' or allowing the beer to undergo a slight secondary fermentation. There are a few ways brewers do this, but the way that works best for me and allows the most control over the second fermentation is by racking off the beer into a 'primed' cask upon the ale reaching terminal gravity. At this point a small amount of neutral dextrose is added to the empty cask just before the cask is filled from the racking arm of the fermentation vessel. This process is akin to what a 'dosage' does in Méthode Champenoise - the small amount of still active yeast present when the ale reaches terminal gravity consumes that small amount of dextrose, providing enough Co2 during this secondary fermentation to carbonate the ale. The beauty of this natural Co2, and the slow maturity that the ale undergoes as it is conditioning is the secret to the subtle aromas and excellent mouthfeel that cask ale, or 'real ale' has. In the same way there is only one Champagne, there is only one 'real' way to present Ale.
JR | I see that you are also very careful on which restaurants and pubs you sell your Casks to, it is very easy to serve a Cask Ale incorrectly and hurt the delicate nature of the cask ale?
MPM | Indeed. This was sort of a big issue for us back when we were strictly making cask ales, back in 2017-2019. We gave people the benefit of the doubt and just assumed that everyone was pretty well versed in prepping, serving, and maintaining casks, but that was really not the case. I think they had all had good intentions and bought a beer engine to serve Cask to diversify their offerings, but often the cellarmanship was left to maybe a bar employee that never was given the know how to make these beers shine. It is something that takes some getting used to and some basic understanding of maintaining something that is living and evolving, but thankfully I have some amazing customers that really care about this process and my beers really shine at their bars. It's not a huge market obviously, but the people who love this sort of thing like myself are eternally grateful to these barkeepers!
JR | What are some of the differences we might notice between tasting the same beer from cask and can?
MPM | The primary difference is the beauty and ease of the aromas and flavors that you get from a cask ale. I certainly love canned beer as well, and make plenty of it, but it always amazes me at how wonderful my ales (which are all pretty low gravity) show from cask. The can being forced carbonated, even at the low-ish level that I carbonate, can still not give you the full high-fi picture the cask does. I also get more pronounced notes from hops and beautiful esters from yeast that I don't get in can.
JR | What are some of your favorite English Breweries? Any beers you wish were more widely available in our area?
MPM | My favorite breweries in the UK are somewhat by region as beer styles can vary a bit for those really focusing on traditional styles. I love Hattie Brown's Brewery in Swanage, Dorset - they provide Ale to my favorite pub, the Square and Compass in Worth Matravers, Dorset. Long Man in Sussex are a favorite, they use their own local malt and hops and have an incredible sustainable model of brewing. On the slightly larger size, the kind of breweries that manage regional pubs, I love Adnams in Southwold in Norfolk. Thornbridge in Derbyshire are outstanding and sometimes those beers can be found in the US - they have managed to make traditional English ales that push the boundaries and have innovative yet balanced beers that taste amazing on cask.
JR | I'm a really big fan of the Walser Alpine Lager, can you tell us a little about how you make this delicious beer?
MPM | Magic! In reality it's a somewhat complex recipe that I arrived at by trying to find a marriage between two Swiss beers I really liked with a touch of something I was looking for in hop aromatics. The base is an heirloom Pilsner malt that Weyermann make called Barke, it's light in color but wonderfully rich - then there is a blend of 2 varieties of Munich Malt and some Spelt malt that adds a little nutty, chewy quality and a nice bit of head retention. The mash is a single infusion and my yeast is pitched quite cold with a free rise of temp for a few days until we clear diacetyl, then hold at about 60 until fermentation has run its course. I also utilize a spunding valve to capture the Co2 released by carbonation, I love the mouthfeel this gives the beers. From there I crash it and lager for about 4 weeks. Unfined and unfiltered!
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JR | What direction do you see American craft brewing moving in the next five years? What would you like to see more of? What would you like to see less of?
MPM | I'm not quite sure! I'm thinking that one direction that the American craft beer movement is headed towards are more discerning and educated consumers. I think certain brewing trends have pushed things to a level that is somewhat unsustainable in the market and consumers are maybe feeling like they might need to find something that really speaks to their taste rather than it being dictated to by breweries pushing a trend. I'd like to see more craft beer bars installing beer engines for cask ale...the ones that do and do it right have very loyal and thankful customers. I'd also like to see an alternative to the plastic PakTech on 16 oz 4packs, this needs to happen! I'd probably like to see less beer that looks like Orange Juice, but I'm not wanting to deprive people who love them...so maybe they should stick around :)
Homespun Foods currently has four packs available for retail sale by Dutchess Ales, including--
'Walser' Alpine Lager
'Telios' IPA
'Avalon' IPA
'Parallax' Pale Ale
'GB' Pale Ale
'Mizmaze' ESB
'Augur' Porter